Golden Xan
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Mallius Odium
Players Playing Bloodbath Demo
Immemorial
Ageless
OG 2020
Grim Scribe
Magus
Vampire Scholar
Old World
Harbinger
- Mar 30, 2019
- 348
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- 138
Answering all your comments, @Livin and @CyanStargazer:
First, about weapons not leveling up and unlocking modification slots instead. If that happens, then I suppose you would end up limiting how useful one particular item could be in terms of raw power, yet you'd open even more options to make it your own. It would also motivate you to make more than one main item for each equipment slot in your character, because you'd want to make items that are more powerful as you grow in power yourself.
If that were the case, how much effort would be necessary for an item to gain a mod slot? I imagine it would have to be considerably less than the never-ending leveling mechanism, as you'd be swapping items more often. If that happens, craftable items would also need to have a rarity or quality rating, because you'd need to be able to differentiate a weaker item at a glance, adding to the complexity.
Now, if the mod slots allow you to make upgrades that are effective only in specific realms, then you could specialize it indeed, but... would there be any reason to focus on a realm that is not your main one? You should probably be crafting items that help you stay undeadly better, with some limited focus on perhaps getting back to your main form if you get vanquished. So, this possibility will only have a meaningful impact if either:
A) Being on another realm other than your main is truly a difficult situation to be in and you find yourself moving to other states often.
B) The mod slots are not freely assignable, you have the majority of mod slots allowing only for upgrades that are used on your main state, with some reserved for the other two separately.
Either case is possible, but it would depend on the gameplay itself, which we don't know enough about yet.
As for the upgrades, I vote on having to unlock the features to perform them but having them readily available to use whenever you need. For example, finding or unlocking runes that you can bring to your personal dungeon and then use them on the same Forge where you created the item to upgrade them. Because then, like CyanStargazer said, you are not forced to go out on an adventure every time you want to make a modification of any kind.
The modification methods themselves are plentiful, there is room for a bazillion ideas. You could find better hammers, you could get better blacksmiths or a higher amount of servants to work on the Forge, you could melt the materials with fire generated from different sources, you could improve the Forge by adding new forging instruments, you can have incantations prepared around the Forge, you could set cores in the molds themselves (like giving hearts to your items), you can have candles lit and offerings sacrificed on a pyre before creating the item, and the list goes on and on.
Whatever it is, I believe it should be something that, once acquired, stays usable forever.
I think modification slots is something that could be implemented to good effect, and it might or might not have anything to do with crafting itself. But it's a good idea on its own.
Also, raids or events won't necessarily be replayable in order to achieve more or repeated rewards. I believe there are other ways of "grinding" that can be just as enjoyable or more than repeating the same subset of missions over and over to achieve a particular set of items. Namely, working on a long and possibly never-ending project of developing your own set of tools and equipment, yet in a way that doesn't discourage you (because there is no viable way of getting to the end). It will depend on how DHS handles missions themselves.
Naturally, the things you get in difficult missions should be proportionally rewarding. As Denis mentioned in one of the streams, this is something they are striving for. However, I believe people will feel much more attached to their characters if they had to put a lot of work into making something out of nothing than if they simply had a collection of powerful items gained throughout the Ages that they know will be replaced once a new, harder, event comes out.
Which is why I think being able to sacrifice these powerful items that you get to improve your own craftable item's power is such an interesting concept. You are, after all, still working hard to attain powerful items and you are also giving up on them to make your own item just as amazing--if not more.
On the other hand, that does sound a bit hardcore... Fighting on a difficult event, achieving a complicated goal, acquiring a powerful and rare item and then never seeing it again because you decided to sacrifice it.
So, thinking of that, perhaps there is an alternate way of having your craftable gain experience that is neither direct use on combat nor the consumption of other items. Perhaps a mixture of that. Here are some alternatives:
A) Craftable items need a "core" in order to be created. That core is like the soul of the item. It gains experience as you fight against enemies, just like your regular character would. You can remove that core from a craftable item that has already been created in order to use it on other items, including non-crafted ones, but the craftable item becomes unusable until its own core is inserted back (cores from other items cannot be inserted).
B) You still absorb power from non-craftable items, but they are not consumed. Items can only be absorbed once per kind (duplicates cannot be absorbed) and cannot be absorbed by multiple craftables.
C) Regular items gain experience just as much as craftable items, but they can be absorbed by the craftable items as you desire.
I believe these are all viable possibilities, but each of them have their advantages and disadvantages. I'd say my favorite alternative is A) right now. And this is all IF the items will have levels themselves.
Further improvements on these alternatives or new ideas are, of course, welcome for discussion.
I also hope we get modding AND leveling with our craftable items. These are two good concepts that add to longevity and customization, of both visuals and gameplay aspects.
First, about weapons not leveling up and unlocking modification slots instead. If that happens, then I suppose you would end up limiting how useful one particular item could be in terms of raw power, yet you'd open even more options to make it your own. It would also motivate you to make more than one main item for each equipment slot in your character, because you'd want to make items that are more powerful as you grow in power yourself.
If that were the case, how much effort would be necessary for an item to gain a mod slot? I imagine it would have to be considerably less than the never-ending leveling mechanism, as you'd be swapping items more often. If that happens, craftable items would also need to have a rarity or quality rating, because you'd need to be able to differentiate a weaker item at a glance, adding to the complexity.
Now, if the mod slots allow you to make upgrades that are effective only in specific realms, then you could specialize it indeed, but... would there be any reason to focus on a realm that is not your main one? You should probably be crafting items that help you stay undeadly better, with some limited focus on perhaps getting back to your main form if you get vanquished. So, this possibility will only have a meaningful impact if either:
A) Being on another realm other than your main is truly a difficult situation to be in and you find yourself moving to other states often.
B) The mod slots are not freely assignable, you have the majority of mod slots allowing only for upgrades that are used on your main state, with some reserved for the other two separately.
Either case is possible, but it would depend on the gameplay itself, which we don't know enough about yet.
As for the upgrades, I vote on having to unlock the features to perform them but having them readily available to use whenever you need. For example, finding or unlocking runes that you can bring to your personal dungeon and then use them on the same Forge where you created the item to upgrade them. Because then, like CyanStargazer said, you are not forced to go out on an adventure every time you want to make a modification of any kind.
The modification methods themselves are plentiful, there is room for a bazillion ideas. You could find better hammers, you could get better blacksmiths or a higher amount of servants to work on the Forge, you could melt the materials with fire generated from different sources, you could improve the Forge by adding new forging instruments, you can have incantations prepared around the Forge, you could set cores in the molds themselves (like giving hearts to your items), you can have candles lit and offerings sacrificed on a pyre before creating the item, and the list goes on and on.
Whatever it is, I believe it should be something that, once acquired, stays usable forever.
I think modification slots is something that could be implemented to good effect, and it might or might not have anything to do with crafting itself. But it's a good idea on its own.
---------------------
Second, about raid items being more powerful than craftable ones: I believe this only depends on what the game will feature in terms of missions and content. Raids, as we've heard about today, will likely not have the same format in DHS than they do in other MMOs. It will likely not be an instance-based mission that last a few hours with a handful of people, it will likely have a nature more akin to a seasonal event with a meta story or gameplay associated with it... For example, an evil that threatens everyone in which all players can take part of across an entire Age.Also, raids or events won't necessarily be replayable in order to achieve more or repeated rewards. I believe there are other ways of "grinding" that can be just as enjoyable or more than repeating the same subset of missions over and over to achieve a particular set of items. Namely, working on a long and possibly never-ending project of developing your own set of tools and equipment, yet in a way that doesn't discourage you (because there is no viable way of getting to the end). It will depend on how DHS handles missions themselves.
Naturally, the things you get in difficult missions should be proportionally rewarding. As Denis mentioned in one of the streams, this is something they are striving for. However, I believe people will feel much more attached to their characters if they had to put a lot of work into making something out of nothing than if they simply had a collection of powerful items gained throughout the Ages that they know will be replaced once a new, harder, event comes out.
Which is why I think being able to sacrifice these powerful items that you get to improve your own craftable item's power is such an interesting concept. You are, after all, still working hard to attain powerful items and you are also giving up on them to make your own item just as amazing--if not more.
On the other hand, that does sound a bit hardcore... Fighting on a difficult event, achieving a complicated goal, acquiring a powerful and rare item and then never seeing it again because you decided to sacrifice it.
So, thinking of that, perhaps there is an alternate way of having your craftable gain experience that is neither direct use on combat nor the consumption of other items. Perhaps a mixture of that. Here are some alternatives:
A) Craftable items need a "core" in order to be created. That core is like the soul of the item. It gains experience as you fight against enemies, just like your regular character would. You can remove that core from a craftable item that has already been created in order to use it on other items, including non-crafted ones, but the craftable item becomes unusable until its own core is inserted back (cores from other items cannot be inserted).
This way, you can still give the item an identity that you'll use to work on and associate with, and you can still use other items, including the ones you find on missions as rewards, to grind it. Once you're ready, you can put the core back in its original item so it absorbs all the experience it acquired. You don't need to lose your rare items, and you don't need to give up on your craftable. Cores may or may not be used on other non-crafted weapons only--So you can only level up one core at a time, yet when not leveling it you can attribute it to any kind of item.
B) You still absorb power from non-craftable items, but they are not consumed. Items can only be absorbed once per kind (duplicates cannot be absorbed) and cannot be absorbed by multiple craftables.
This way, you can maintain a large collection of all the rewards you got in your journey, you still gain something for your craftable, and you still have the value from all the combinations you could make, mixing craftables and regular items in your kit. The main problem with this is that either the power gained from absorbed items is very, very small, or you'll have a combination of items that can have too big a payoff, or you can have people who distribute their item experience between many craftables and then they end up wasting their potential.
C) Regular items gain experience just as much as craftable items, but they can be absorbed by the craftable items as you desire.
This way you get to play with whatever it is you prefer at any given moment, yet you never stop gaining resources (experience, in this case) that you can use to develop your craftables. You may or may not be able to choose how much experience from an item is converted to any particular craftable, and there may or may not be an absorption loss (making regular items help you level the craftables, but not as fast as playing directly with them).
I believe these are all viable possibilities, but each of them have their advantages and disadvantages. I'd say my favorite alternative is A) right now. And this is all IF the items will have levels themselves.
Further improvements on these alternatives or new ideas are, of course, welcome for discussion.
I also hope we get modding AND leveling with our craftable items. These are two good concepts that add to longevity and customization, of both visuals and gameplay aspects.