Dangers of your True Name Discussion

CyanStargazer

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So I remembered earlier today that Denis, Jack, and others teased that letting your characters True Name leak out might be devastating. I thought that since it seems like we haven't had any sort of discussion about it we might as well start. Given that Names, especially True Names seemingly have power over individuals, it could be something along the lines of a debuff when you fight a person who knows your True Name. But on the other possible hand it could also be a benefit, such as when you fight with someone who knows your true name it could buff you. My idea is that True Names can influence the person it belongs to, either "Shackling them" or "Unleashing them" depending on the manner it's used.
Edit: To go onto my idea of the "Shackling" is that an earlier entry of the Liche says that they seek the "Truth" which could be the True Names of the Elder Gods to theoretically "Shackle" an elder got to their will. If this is at all possible or not, we might never know, but it could be a good point of departure.
 
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Rx_Bishop_MD

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I have thought a little about this myself. Given the setting of the game that has been presented to tie the "True Name" to just a pvp element may be a little narrow imho. So what you are saying seems to make more sense. I think we have said it before...something like gaining a buff from either playing with them...or even something more passive like a small amount of exp...or gold...or even lore.

I see a game with potential to have endless things to find. What does that mean. Will others find things I may never..or vice versa. Maybe they will discover secrets quicker...so maybe being tied together I learn some of those secrets too. That would be a positive. To think of what may be negative is much scarier. PvP makes sense...but then dont fight them. So i dont know. This type of mechanic sounds like it could be a lot of fun.
 
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CyanStargazer

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I have thought a little about this myself. Given the setting of the game that has been presented to tie the "True Name" to just a pvp element may be a little narrow imho. So what you are saying seems to make more sense. I think we have said it before...something like gaining a buff from either playing with them...or even something more passive like a small amount of exp...or gold...or even lore.

I see a game with potential to have endless things to find. What does that mean. Will others find things I may never..or vice versa. Maybe they will discover secrets quicker...so maybe being tied together I learn some of those secrets too. That would be a positive. To think of what may be negative is much scarier. PvP makes sense...but then dont fight them. So i dont know. This type of mechanic sounds like it could be a lot of fun.
Yeah I was thinking about outside a PvP environment. It could be something as simple as when you deal with them (In like a trade or something similar) if a similar system is used for trading in DHS as Warframe (Specifically the Clan Tax system which I don't know why it's there) it could be something like a minor inconvenience where you pay them a bit more gold or something. Another debuff is that they could freely use your stuff, maybe taking or removing items of a specific low rarity value and in very small amounts as a way of "exerting power over you" and that effect lasts for a very limited amount of time. Sort of a one and done with a limited amount of time to use it. Like maybe 5-10 IRL days at most. Then they might lose the option to use it against you forever outside of PvP because "You've become resistant to their influence." or similar.
 
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Rx_Bishop_MD

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Something that I just thought of...and this is another benefit...what if knowing a real name would allow you to summon a spirit of them in combat for you. Given a limited amount of time...and maybe only once a day or something...but ultimately as long as you have their name you could always do it. That seems like a balance nightmare but would be really cool. Maybe a negative would be if they were online it would cause a debuff on them for the amount of time the summon is there...and could be stacked if multiple people are essentially draining them of power across the land.

All of this could be game breaking if someones name got out in a forum or something. I would hate to see something like that where people may try to abuse that though.
 

Quamobrem

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I think a cool mechanic would be the ability to impose a "geas" on a player, like a quest that they have to do or suffer some penalty, that provides you with some bonus or advancement to your character's goals. Probably have the quest provide pretty decent rewards for the person undertaking it, too, so that it's not a completely awful thing to have imposed on you.

Other forms of mythological geas, like a prohibition against certain actions (Such as opposing your/your faction in pvp or however the in-game politics might work) could also work, but would have to be balanced carefully to not be annoying.

It would also be a pretty good idea to have there be *benefits* for letting some characters know your True Name, like they can give you strong buffs and the like, to make giving it out a tempting option.
 

CyanStargazer

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Yeah, the balancing issues could be very tough. If one person ends up putting their characters "True Name" out there, and somewhere down the line they have a fall out with the person they trusted their true name too, it could easily get into the wrong hands and neuter the character. So maybe there is a hard limit on how big the debuff could get. Maybe a debuff of 25% of their stats at max. There could also be a limit on how many people can use that persons true name at a time as well and have it on a long cool down to avoid basically an entire guild making one players life hell for weeks on end by giving them almost a full 25% debuff or similar. I say an entire guild because looking at how bad some guild fallouts can be, it's best to take it into account now than when a player is rendered useless by people abusing it in the future.
 

Rx_Bishop_MD

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I think a cool mechanic would be the ability to impose a "geas" on a player, like a quest that they have to do or suffer some penalty, that provides you with some bonus or advancement to your character's goals. Probably have the quest provide pretty decent rewards for the person undertaking it, too, so that it's not a completely awful thing to have imposed on you.
Ohhh I really like that idea. That would be really cool. Could you imagine logging in though to see 20 new quests you would have to do.
 

Quamobrem

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Definitely something that would require some pretty heavy balance, yeah.

At least one important facet would be, in my mind having either A: A way to intentionally change your true name, via a quest or other non-trivial mechanic or B: Truenames changing automatically if overused.
 
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DukeVaeVictis

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When they mentioned True Names I was thinking about the what for benefits and penalities it would make for the people invovled, if there is no benefits in knowing someone's name then why would you share it? It should be a risk or reward invovled, but in what way? Increase in stats when playing in the same group, a decrease in stats when using a True Name? Making the game more challening but still playable? Just to chime in with Dark Souls as example, Dark Souls is not hard or challening it just requires extra bit of attention from people playing it.

My hopes for PvP in Deadhaus is less about gangs of players running and more about clans and houses seeking to establish dominance in the undead political spectrum going on in the world - Humans players hunting undead? Yay too!

"Rose Marry! I command thee to speak of your most innerest fears!"

"SPIDERS! DAMN YOU!"

I mean in a way yeah I can imagine it being used to "share" lore/secrets. xD
 
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Varik Keldun

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Denis has stated that True Names are a very powerful thing... maybe invoking a true name could lead to a permadeath type situation if used by the wrong person... there was also talk of the possibility of infusing a character into weapons / armor to make them stronger... so there is the possibility of having to know the true name to A) Make the item. B) Wield the items. C) Use the item to its' full potential.
 
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Elveone

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When encountering true names in fiction they are usually used to either summon or control somebody. Generally the control is a consequence of said summoning or of dominating someone with overwhelming power or will but for the latter there must be a severe difference in power between the controller and the controlee.

Generally speaking the power to summon something is not very useful unless you can control it so in most fiction the idea of true names is paired with the idea of the impenetrable magic circle. Once summoned into the circle generally the summoned entity is unfriendly due to being dragged god-knows-where by some random guy the summoned has never met before. If the circle is improperly set or simply not powerful enough the entity would escape and would likely kill the summoner. Generally though the summoner would bargain with the summoned for some sort of bargain, the simplest one being the entity being released with some task to do. Unless the task is something the entity would do anyway though such a bargain is unlikely to occur because in most cases those circles of power cannot be maintained indefinitely especially if the entity inside fights to break free. Unless the summoner wants to die he would rather banish the summoned creature before the circle collapses and at this point the entity is released anyway. Generally a bad idea as the summoner would not have achieved his goals and would have probably made an enemy, albeit one that does not know the summoner's identity in most cases. Generally it is a bad idea to attack the entity inside the circle as it would be released if the circle is crossed in any manner and usually the entity is able to depart immediately when the circle is broken so the summoning is usually not a good way to ambush it.

This whole process could actually be translated into game mechanics and if a player character is summoned into a circle he could be prevented from participating in an important battle. Of course the summoner would have to be of sufficient power or the summoned would be able to break out so it would be a bad idea for noob characters to summon veteran ones. Probably only one summon should be available at a time with some time after the summoning when the character would be immune to it unless he wants to be summoned otherwise this could end up in a complete clusterfuck. The positive side of a summoning system like this would be that a character can be summoned in a friendly manner.
 
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I'd use it as a form of currency, trading it for something rare and extremely desired, the cost being a quest they must fulfill on behalf of the one you gave it to in the exchange. Perhaps it is a one time thing, perhaps its multiple, or maybe there are some requiring periodic quests like once a month and even one failure to complete will result in forfeiture of whatever was given.
 

Galen

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I can't imagine that True Names will be an issue amongst players. The abuse would be unreal.

It seems to me that it's far more likely to be a story implement in the game's campaign -- whether you tell NPC allies, whether NPC enemies discover your true name (or you discover theirs) may be a plot point.
 

Elveone

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I can't imagine that True Names will be an issue amongst players. The abuse would be unreal.

It seems to me that it's far more likely to be a story implement in the game's campaign -- whether you tell NPC allies, whether NPC enemies discover your true name (or you discover theirs) may be a plot point.
Some of the inspiration about the world-changing of DHS is EVE online where backstabbing resulting in years of progress being wiped is kind of par for the course so make of that what you will.
 
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Galen

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Some of the inspiration about the world-changing of DHS is EVE online where backstabbing resulting in years of progress being wiped is kind of par for the course so make of that what you will.
That might be true, but imo that's playing with fire. You'd need a passionately dedicated fanbase to ensure people didn't quit enmasse when something as huge as an entire guild's vault being raided happens -- or something more permanent happens, such as your true name is made publicly known.