Gigahaus Class Speculation

Golden Xan

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EDIT: February 29th - Edit 1 (Find the original topic in the spoiler below)
GIGAHAUS
In the beginning, explorers, sages and treasure hunters who traveled to the western expanse have all reported multiple sightings of "moving mountains" in the distance. Those that ventured too close to these fantastical anomalies often did not return. The few who did were regarded as mad by most, likely affected by the relentless heat of the Wastes of Malice, and the minority who did believe them could not envision their descriptions as something feasible.

After the Empire of Men fractured and Deadhaus' corruption spread, presenting an ever more ominous threat, the humans found the need to expand as their territory was cut in half and the requirement of land, resources and defensive positions increased. Small groups traveled through the straights in hopes to colonize new lands. But, to everyone's surprise, they found the place was already colonized. And the beings who lived there didn't look like humans. They didn't look like undead either. They looked more like... gods.
Giants are beings created from essential Powers. They are manifestations of the works of higher entities, in their attempts to change the lower realms of existence, or that of developed individuals, when attempting to reach ascendancy levels beyond theirs. As fruits of raw Power, they are expressions of the attributes of each of these powers.

Their immensity is only made possible by the forces of nature attempting to equilibrate the Powers being warped. This balance is often brought upon the material elements of the world, generating a new primal individual. Their connection to these external influences who brought them life give them the capability to see beyond the veil of reality. This material reality, in any case.


Trinary Archetype System with Descriptions - Gigahaus.jpg

Titan.jpg
Titan
The Titans are the tallest of all giant classes. They are as big as mountains and their sheer size makes up for their prowess.
Cyclops
The Cyclopes are a race of giants that is normally associated with brute force and simple-mindedness. This couldn't be further from the truth. Cyclops have a strong connection to the forces of magick, and many become warlocks themselves.
Mage Cyclops.png
Frostgiant 2.jpg
Jotun
Frost-giants, with a special affinity to the magickal side of the world. They are ethereal by nature, manifesting themselves in the form of snowstorms, until they condense into various humanoid forms of their preference and capability. Also, I completely made all this up. Their names comes from Jötunn, Norse mythology.
Ent
The Ents are born in the wilderness and protect it as others would protect their home. They are friends with Faehaus due to their coacting nature.
Earth Giant.jpg
Golem.png
Golem
The Golems are the hybrid class in Gigahaus. They are sentient weapons themselves, brought to life from a soulcore and crafted using various materials, such as metal, stone, or flesh and bone.
Minotaur
The Minotaurs are twice as large as the largest of humans. They have a bestial temper, but are masters of their bodies.
Minotaur.jpg
Behemoth.png

Behemoth
The Behemoths are the second largest race in Gigahaus. They are towering creatures with the capability to morph their bodies and gain new abilities according to necessity. Vicious monsters that are scared by nothing and only stop in death.
Instead of items, they use different elements to change their own form.

In the future, as we discuss things, I'll add more descriptions and details about our speculations.

For PVP gameplay mechanics, see this thread:

Gigahaus potential gameplay mechanics for PVP


Find below the original post.

Hey everyone,
New Houses is something we'll have to wait some time to see, but with the high chances of the first one coming after Deadhaus being Gigahaus, I wanted to think about what sort of character classes we'd be seeing. At this point, I'm not thinking much about gameplay or feasibility, just concepts. When I first heard about Gigahaus, I wondered how many kinds of giants exist in myths so that you could create 7 unique classes. Turns out, there are plenty.

Trinary Archetype System Gigahaus 8-bit.png

Titan.jpg
Titan

The Titans are the tallest of all giant classes. They are as big as mountains and their sheer size makes up for their prowess.

Trinary Archetype Position: Top Vertex
Cyclops

The Cyclopes are a race of giants that is normally associated with brute force and simple-mindedness. This couldn't be further from the truth. Cyclops have a strong connection to the forces of magick, and many become warlocks themselves.

Trinary Archetype Position: Left Edge
Mage Cyclops.png
Frostgiant 2.jpg
Jotun

Frost-giants, with a special affinity to the magickal side of the world. They are ethereal by nature, manifesting themselves in the form of snowstorms, until they condense into various humanoid forms of their preference and capability. Also, I completely made all this up. Their names comes from Jötunn, Norse mythology.

Trinary Archetype Position: Left Vertex
Ent

The Ents are born in the wilderness and protect it as others would protect their home. They are friends with Faehaus due to their coacting nature.

Trinary Archetype Position: Bottom Edge
Earth Giant.jpg
Golem.png
Golem

The Golems are the hybrid class in Gigahaus. They are sentient weapons themselves, brought to life from a soulcore and crafted using various materials, such as metal, stone, or flesh and bone.

Trinary Archetype Position: Center
Minotaur

The Minotaurs are twice as large as the largest of humans. They have a bestial temper, but are masters of their bodies.

Trinary Archetype Position: Right Edge
Minotaur.jpg
Behemoth.png



Behemoth
The Behemoths are the second largest race in Gigahaus. They are towering creatures with the capability to morph their bodies and gain new abilities according to necessity. Vicious monsters that are scared by nothing and only stop in death.
Instead of items, they use different elements to change their own form.

Trinary Archetype Position: Right Vertex
Other races that I considered were Genies, Elementals, Stonemen, Claymen, Colossus, Automata, Ogres, Trolls and Lizardmen. But I figured some of them were more fitting for other potential houses, such as the elementals and genies, and some were too generic or overly used. When thinking about giants, I figured anything that is mostly bigger than a human could be considered a giant, so I tried to find concepts that would be both interesting and unique enough.
These are all mere character concepts, though. I have not come to think much about how they would function, gameplay-wise, or how far would their asymmetry be taken when compared to Deadhaus. This is something I'm most curious about, and why I'm eager to hear more about them.
The most I came to think is that, instead of items, most classes would modify their powers or own bodies through various enhancements and developments. I believe it makes sense for most of them. Of the classes I chose, only the Cyclopes and Minotaurs, possibly together with the Titans, would have items.
Also, when it comes to other Houses we know that they will likely have other elements to them, instead of Physical, Magickal and Essential. When I thought of this, I initially treated Gigahaus as having the same three, but I later came up with other potential attributes. I couldn't get away from Physical, though, as it is something far too grounded not to be included.
I thought of Bestialness instead of Essence, which would determine how feral some of them were. The Behemoths' position, together with the Minotaur and Ent, would be fitting for this. Its meter would likely be ferocity, rage, or its equivalent.
I also imagined swapping the Magickal aspect for Elemental, which would allow Jotuns to become Elementals themselves, and which I believe would also be fitting for the Ents' proximity to it. I just don't know about the Cyclopes. Its meter would likely still be related to Mana.
Do you have any ideas you'd like to share about this or other Houses?
 
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SoDangeresque

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I would actually speculate golems as being in the right corner. Since, as you say they are sentient weapons constructed by another, they're almost like living artifacts. But then again, that's comparing them them to deadhaus' trinary aspects of material, magikal, and essential. Gigahaus will have a totally different systems so it's hard to say.
 
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Livin

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There are a few I'd swap around on the archetype, cyclops at magical with jotun where they were and the same as minotaur with titan; but that is more of a personal preference than anything else. This is awesome, particularly the golem as the hybrid with their bodies potential being able to incorporate all manner of materials into their forms.

Edit
Has there been any discussion on what ties them together like death being what ties the classes of deadhaus ?
 
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Golden Xan

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Good question. Perhaps "gigantism" is something only made possible by the manifestation of a divine force? Such as undeath only being possible due to the manifestation of an Elder God's power, for instance. I really don't know. Perhaps they all have similar origins?
 
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Livin

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Good question. Perhaps "gigantism" is something only made possible by the manifestation of a divine force? Such as undeath only being possible due to the manifestation of an Elder God's power, for instance. I really don't know. Perhaps they all have similar origins?
I was thinking something along the same lines. Perhaps they could be the children or creations of the elder gods and united under that?
 
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derula

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Wow, great write-up.

I was under the impression that while the other houses would have a similar Trinary Archetype system, it would be different archetypes. While there can certainly be magickal giants, it doesn't seem to me like the types of giants would spread evenly across the physical / magickal / essential scale.

I haven't put any thought into what other scale there could be, but one important "grading" that was apparent from your write-up was size. Maybe the "physical" edge could be replaced with "size." Some of your examples had very beastlike qualities, while others were more made of plants or even matter typically considered to be inanimate, so maybe the "magickal" could be replaced with... something that indicates how similar they are to "normal," flesh-based creatures. As for the third, I don't know, maybe speed? Giant tend to be on the slow-moving variety, but there can obviously be differences.

Also, I was thinking: what if the trinary system for Gigahaus looks slightly different? Instead of a triangle, it could, for example, be a Venn diagram, like so:
1582582307157.png

Without putting much thought into it, maybe:
  • Top left: Titan
  • Top right: Minotaur
  • Bottom: ??
  • Top middle: Ent
  • Left middle: Behemoth?
  • Right middle: ??
  • Center: ??
Some food for thought maybe :)
 

Golden Xan

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Your image of the diagram didn't load, but I don't know if that was just on my end or there was an issue.
EDIT: Oh, it loaded now. :) Looks good!
In any case, I think that the idea of having something other than a triangle makes sense. I see the potential of using a Venn diagram instead.

I couldn't think of many interesting attributes to substitute at first... I suppose Size could be an attribute if there was a meaningful reason for size being of an unnatural nature. Let me explain:
On Deadhaus, Physical, Magickal and Essential have to do with states of being. They are all attributes based on planes of existence, potentially made possible by superior forces that we don't understand.
On Gigahaus, there has to be something equivalent. If Size is something that is only made possible through some other superior force, then that would make it fitting enough to be an attribute.

But for Physical, we have Vitality, which is its meter. What would be Size's meter? What could be associated with it that would also represent the equivalent of Health? Maybe Integrity. Integrity, perhaps, of whatever force allows for the giants to stay alive despite their incredible size.

I'm going to leave potential differences in the archetype system aside for now. Let's see if we can come up with interesting elements to represent the trinity first.

A second element I thought of is Sentience. And its meter could be Acumen. That is not to say that giants on the other end of Sentience would be stupid, but their perception of the world could be different because of that. And Acumen could be a representation of their focus. We could invent any lore reason as to why giants have difficulties in maintaining themselves, which could have an intrinsic relation to how they exist, what powers them.

And for the third one, which was the first I came to think of, was Bestialness itself, how feral they are. But there must be a better word for this, and I'm not sure this is the best alternative either.
You mentioned speed. Speed could have adrenaline or stamina as a meter. I just don't know if giants should be fast, as they should already be capable of covering long distances with but a few steps depending on how big they actually are.

Not only that, we need not to be bounded by meters and trinities. Who's to say that other Houses will even have such disposition? Perhaps some of them won't even have meters, or they will have more than one attribute. But that is going a bit too far as well... there is no concrete reason to believe this will be the case, even though I wouldn't be surprised if they went in this direction.

But, getting back on track... What do you people think of Size, Sentience and Bestialness as potential substitutes? And what of their representation, Integrity, Acumen and Ferocity? Do you think it would make sense for the giants? Are there better alternatives? What of Speed and Stamina?

I will try to think of other possibilities.
 
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CyanStargazer

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A thought I had for the more beastial giants is that they're a sort of glass cannons. They can cause massive amounts of destruction when they give in, but in return receive more damage. Sort of like the D&D Barbarian, deal increase damage and other bonuses but are easier to hit. As for the more giant classes they can be more well built, more of a solid anchor point requiring enemies to focus them to bring them down, in return for their fortitude they are slower, with long winding up attacks that can deal a lot of damage but can be more easily evaded than others. Maybe the biggest of enemies can pick up living foes and bite their heads off to heal a bit (Could also fit with the more beastial giants) as for the magic/elemental giants like the Cyclops, they do have magic in the mythology they're based off of or are directly connected to gods. So a sort of bastard descendant branch from the elder gods could make sense (Cyclops' were children of Poseidon in Greek mythology for example).
 
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Golden Xan

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A thought I had for the more beastial giants is that they're a sort of glass cannons. They can cause massive amounts of destruction when they give in, but in return receive more damage.
Perhaps that would go nicely with their health/integrity/vitality. Some of these giants are not biological per se, so they could lose, visually, some of their parts and slowly become more destroyed the closer they are to dying itself. That would be an interesting mechanic, both for graphics and for the perception of their health. Would be great if that were possible.

This makes me wonder whether we'll see undead getting hurt as well... I'll add that to the ask-a-dev.
 
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Livin

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Just a suggestion following the idea that they are children or creations of the elder gods and broken up by what they are made from. Sorry, I'm not able to do a cool graphic like everyone else.

Primal- Flesh and Bone
Natural- Plants and Elements
Etherial- Energy and Spirit

Primal(Minotaur)
Etherial/Primal(Cyclops)
Etherial(Juton)
Natural/Etherial(Titan)
Natural(Ent)
Primal/Natural(Behemoth)

Golem(Balanced)
 

derula

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@Golden Xan yes I think your suggestion makes more sense than mine. Like I said, I was more making an example and it wasn't well thought-out.

As for states of being, this seems to me more something that lends itself better to the undead than other houses. That is not to say that only the undead are able to ever change state, but the primary "hook" for what sets other houses apart could be something else. Or at the very least, the states of being could have entirely different gameplay implications, for example, not based on a meter that runs out, but rather on convenience.

A crude example just to explain what I mean. We know there will be a house of angels. For them, a change of state could be more about whether their wings are "stowed" (unable to fly, but not attached / visible / provable; able to plausibly deny being an angel), "cloaked" (wings are there but tied to the body and/or hidden under an article of clothing, but could be more quickly restored for use), or "showing" (free to use and fly around, but will always be recognized as an angel). Changing states takes time and effort, so if they're in stowed state they probably won't be flying the same day, or if they are flying to a human city they can't just land a mile away, stow their wings, and not be recognized.

For giants... again, just a crude example from the top of my head, maybe these states could be periodical, in that you have to go through states in a certain order. I'm thinking one state could be "stationary," where people can use them to write letters on them where they are unable to move but also completely cloaked as a part of a forest, a mountain, a glacier... depending on the type. They might also slowly regenerate health / stamina (maybe the latter determines how long they can stay in other states?). From that state they turn into a kind of tank-y state where their movement is slower, but they are very hard to shake down. As they get warmed up, they change into a more active state where their attacks are devastating, but they are easily toppled and will need to regain their balance. Changing states again will make you go back to the tank-y state, and finally, you turn back into part of the environment.
 

Golden Xan

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Taking into consideration what everyone said, I believe we came up with very interesting ideas over all. The mere concept of having each House with its own diagram is already quite interesting, and when you take into account @derula's suggestion of having polarity-based elements it increases the possibilities even further.

There is also the fact that other Houses may or may not have a different quantity of elements altogether, and the possibility of some elements not even having manifestations in the character's attributes, being mere lore-related concepts.

Since we can't tell what direction they are shooting towards and considering that their ideas will likely change over time, I don't think I will try and speculate on something too different from the system already in place for Deadhaus simply because there is the high chance that their version won't deviate too much from the original concept, especially considering it will likely be the second House available only.

So, with this in my mind, I'll hold Gigahaus as having three main elements in which the classes base themselves on. We may even discuss lore reasons for their elements and gameplay aspects to represent them, as we have already, but I'll leave more complex concepts for other Houses, or reserve it for Giga when/if they divulge more information on that.

As for the elements themselves, I think a combination of our ideas is the best way to go, but @Livin's suggestion are, in my opinion, the best and most differentiated concepts so far. My only concern was that Ethereal was too similar to Magick itself, as the undead become ethereal (mist-like entities) when in that plane of existence.
However, different from Deadhaus, I don't think it's necessary for the giants to have different existential states. The elements may be used to determine their gameplay style, their powers, the lore behind them, their relationship to the world and possible political affiliations or motivations, but I think giving them three "health states" is too similar to Deadhaus already.

As such, I'll imagine the main elements as being Primal, Elemental and Logical. I think Primal is much better than Bestialness or the sort, and it practically represents the same things, while encompassing more possibilities and sounding way better. Elemental is probably more fitting for giants that represent forces of nature or that are commonly associated with elements, such as frost for Jotun, nature for Ents, and possibly other variations with some of the other classes, while still being unique. Also, Ethereal is too close to Magick itself. Finally, I wanted something related to their physical prodigiousness, but I take it that they are all giants and that whatever gameplay difference they have between them doesn't need to be dictated by an element. I believe Logical fits with the other two and is different enough from what we have in Deadhaus. It also mixes better with the concepts I selected for the classes themselves.
Feel free to suggest better names or concepts if you think of anything.

With these three, we can have a similar disposition on the Archetype System, one that makes sense for all of them:
On the Elemental vertex and edges, we have Jotun at the tip, Ent on the Logical side and Titan on the Primal.
On the Logical vertex, we have Cyclopes at the tip, with Ent and Minotaur as its neighbors.
On the Primal vertex, we have the Behemoth, with the Minotaur and Titan at the sides.
In the middle, stands the Golem, a mixture of all three elements.
It makes quite a lot of sense, conceptually.

And then we have their meters. And for that, I think we can apply some changes to the traditional system on Deadhaus.
Some classes can have certain meters, while other classes can have exclusive or separate meters.
For instance, Titans and Golems could have Integrity as their health state. Minotaurs, Cyclopes and Behemoths could have Health or Vitality as their main health states. Jotuns and Ents, possibly the Titans as well, could have Ether as their health states. They could all have their own strengths and weaknesses, similar to how undead get affected by different sources of damage.

As for Mana and Essence, they may also vary depending on their classes, and their gameplay style. The more feral classes could have stamina as their secondary meter, or willpower, or energy, or whatever it is that makes sense for their particular cases, just like different classes in Deadhaus gain their Mana type in different ways. And they don't need to have a third meter, but they may have specific capabilities of their own instead.

I believe this is differentiated enough from Deadhaus while also bringing quite a good amount of potential in terms of complexity, lore and gameplay possibilities. I also hope everyone is satisfied with the choices I made based on all of our suggestions.

Feel free to suggest changes or additions for these concepts, or to add your suggestions in regards to the other aspects we haven't discussed. I wasn't initially planning on thinking about gameplay, but after this much, I'll start to do so.
Unless someone suggests something better, I'll soon update the main post with these changes.
 
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vhalnich

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I kind of hope that gigahaus isn’t the next Haus up because I think it would be a nightmare to balance. There would need to be like 6 Deadhaus characters for every 2-3 gianthais characters. But for the sake of coming up with 7 classes I’ll give it a shot. I also wonder if Ogres will be a part of gigahaus
1-Ice Giant-Lotsof CC and very tank. Tank or bruiser class
2-Fire Giant-High Damage and magical output
3- Herder-Nomadic Giant that can have pets like prehistoric wolly mammoths, wolly rhinos or saber tooth cats, bears or wolves.
4-Forest Giant-lots of healing and cc-very nature based
5- Storm Giant- Lightning based magic dealer
6-Stone Giant-Earth based magic-cc Heavy
7-Beserker- Duel wielding giant weapons this class will be the most weapon and close up damage related.

One thing that I will need to learn is if the Haus of Giants will be more than just giants. If it includes Minotaurs, Ogres and other large beings then I would readjust the classes. I would have a Minotaur Berserker and shaman class that uses totems. I would have an Ogre herder and melee tank class as well to replace some of the other classes to make a grand total of 7 classes. I almost forgot about trolls as well. I wonder if trolls will be in giga or any other haus.
 
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Livin

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Very nice Golden Xan. I like Elemental over Natural, sounds more appropriate and aggressive. For Logical might I suggest, and I'm aware this is a little made up, Illuminal? It's a bit of a play on the illuminate/enlighten ones.
 
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Golden Xan

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I've updated the original post with the new concepts we came up with. I'll add to it and improve what we've got as we discuss new things. The next aspect I'd like to think about is how Gigahaus and Deadhaus could face each other in PVP, because that will also affect how Gigahaus works in general, unless the PVP gameplay is vastly different from regular play.
I have some ideas, and I'll expand upon them when I can.

Now, there's room to discuss the lore, the gameplay, the pvp, and how the giants generally differentiate from the undead in terms of mechanics. For instance, how do they use items, whether they will have crafting mechanics, whether their skill system will be similar, etc.
I made a simple background lore, something I came up with when editing the post. It's mostly to fill the blank, as of now. I don't think it's necessary to go too deep in the lore of Gigahaus itself, but we could make some lore for the classes themselves if we want to.
 
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Livin

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I'm liking this and look forward to seeing how this develops further.

I've been pondering how they shall do battle, as well as wield weapons or craft them. For some or most of them it might be necessary for their crafting to be internal, generating weapons from within and projecting them outward. The cyclop and minotaur would be the ones I'd consider the clear exceptions to this, needing to forge externally; but they could also potentially take up the arms of others, though they might be restricted to two handed weapons that they can carry with just one and the rest being adaptable to fit their size or scraped to build something new. The golem could be able to do it all as their size could be adjustable, generating weapons that they can project and able to take them up or craft external ones when they shrink down.
 
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derula

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I've updated the original post with the new concepts we came up with.
Nice. It's all coming together quite nicely.
The next aspect I'd like to think about is how Gigahaus and Deadhaus could face each other in PVP
That's a good angle to take, because since there's going to be PVP anyway, it doesn't make sense to first think about Gigahaus gameplay and then figure out how PVP works.

Since each undead class can exist in three different states - physical, ethereal, and contained - and has some means to switch between them (the specifics of which are, if I understood correctly, different for each class), this is already a part of combat where they have an advantage. I'll make the following assumptions:
  • Giants are always physical
  • The strongest undead's brute strength doesn't rival the weakest giants'
Those are, of course, debatable - but for the sake of this exploration, I will accept them as true.

@vhalnich suggested that that for every 2-3 Gigahaus characters, there would need to be 6 undead characters - I'm assuming they mean for PVP combat to be fair. I think there is a better way, because giants have some weaknesses and undead have some strengths that would account for a better balance.

In my mind, if one undead were to fight one giant, the undead would be at a physical disadvantage. Of course, it depends on their class, but giants would probably pretty quickly force the undead into ethereal or contained state.
  • In ethereal form, magick using undead could still attack the giant, but unless the giant is also a magick user - which I'm assuming not all giant classes are - the giant could no longer attack back. (by "magick using" I mean the individual can cast spells to damage their opponents regardless of whether they currently have a physical manifestation)
  • In contained form, the undead may no longer be able to attack the giant - and possibly vice versa!
So I don't think any giant is generally superior to any undead:
  • A magick using undead would have an advantage over a non-magick using giant - since the undead can withdraw to ethereal state where they can't be physically hurt
  • A non-magick using undead might not be able to bring down a giant - they might be forced to change to ethereal form (or possibly even contained form, if the giant is a magick user) and retreat. However, once they changed form, the giant may not be able to cause the undead's True Death.
  • Finally, if both undead and giant are magick users, it would be a fairly even fight (except for the undead possibly still having the option to become contained).
So the giant has a clear advantage when it comes to physical attacks, and might be hard to bring down - but on the flip side, an undead can change states, significantly reducing the threat of physical attacks. I imagine there will be cases where one undead will kill one giant opponent - but also pairings of classes where the opposite outcome is more likely.

Likewise, if a group of 6 giants fights against a group of 6 undead, I think that depending on how many of which class are in each group, either could be at a significant advantage. That is to say, the deciding factor of who's superior is the composition of the group more so than its size.
 
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Roband

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These were all great suggestions (although a part of me would like the golem to be a craftable minion 😏) obviously with so many miths in the world they can't put everything, still i would like at least one between troll and orks/ogres just because how iconic they are in folk lore and old popular legends (they are kinda overused now but rarely seen in games outside of tolkien tropes, the orks at least).

Or they may surprise everyone and throw them among the fae house (who said that all types of faires have to be small and/or pretty?) after all the game is aiming to have a pretty dark and grim tone so who knows. Maybe they could cover the middle ground in size from humans like size to giants and be the tank/heavy melee hitter role.

Anyway if they will introuduce trolls, i expect them to have of course a lot of huge nose options to choose.

01.jpg

CYJtlIWWkAArOCR.jpg

8b5d1f08d550e0a5aa5f79073b296bf4.jpg

fe985560768510b851d902d16451b2a7.jpg
 

derula

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although a part of me would like the golem to be a craftable minion
Hmmm... what if they're both? I'm not basing this on any existing lore, but it might be interesting if they start out as craftable minions, but after a while, as they experience the world and their masters more, eventually develop a mind of their own and become player-controlled (when a new Golem character is created).

Wouldn't it be hilarious if your trusty old helper suddenly ran off, or just started talking to you? (Would need some rules and restrictions, of course, or else it will quickly frustrate players.)
 
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