Player movement and verticality

DukeVaeVictis

Long Dead
Mallius Odium
Immemorial
Ageless
OG 2020
Apr 17, 2020
40
40
58
TSW puzzles were wonderful at launch when there was no websites or google searches that could help you along or guide you. I enjoyed them!

Terrain puzzles are cool if they are not a detriment to overall gameplay and possible mechanics. I honestly don't understand your issue with me wanting to have wall climbing or flying as I doubt we'd even play together. It is obvious we seek different things in the game the difference between you and me is that, I hope you get what you want while you'd would prefer I don't. From streams I have been watching and if I remember it correct then puzzles will be in the game but they will not be required, so I'm happy with that and you can do puzzle! Good for both of us!

Devs! Please don't make me do puzzles, I want to leave a trail of corpses and stain the street with blood and gore!
 

Elveone

Long Dead
Mallius Odium
Immemorial
Ageless
OG 2020
Dog Adopter
Mar 28, 2019
110
126
93
What you want ruins gameplay elements I enjoy and bring nothing of value to the overall experience. Having flying and unlimited wall climbing does not improve the gameplay in any way - a game world featuring those is basically flat as any vertical movement of the character is unimpeeded.
 

DukeVaeVictis

Long Dead
Mallius Odium
Immemorial
Ageless
OG 2020
Apr 17, 2020
40
40
58
It ruins gameplay stuff you like because you can waltz over it? Puzzles should always be optional and not required and If, someone wants to do the puzzles it should be in such a way that every class can do it, with or without flying or wall-climbing, issue solved and fixed.

I don't get the issue here, I still don't. If you want to platform then don't play a class which would allow you to skip it? If I see a lever I must pull I would prefer to quickly make my over it by either climbing, jumping or better, fly! - if you don´t then don't. What's the problem?


Meh, Nah, I bow and see myself out of this thread, There is nothing to gain or learn here! Have a good day Elveone! I hope you get your puzzles!
 
Last edited:

Elveone

Long Dead
Mallius Odium
Immemorial
Ageless
OG 2020
Dog Adopter
Mar 28, 2019
110
126
93
You don't get the issue cause you are selfish. You want your cosmetic movement and do not like puzzles. I like puzzles and flying means that there will be no such kind of puzzles. Saying puzzles should always be optional is like saying combat should always be optional - this is not true for all types of games. Even if puzzles are optional you should not be rewarded for choosing to basically cheat to complete them i.e. if you do not like puzzles you do not do the puzzles and you do not get the rewards associated with those puzzles. What you are suggesting is not having rewarding puzzles because you do not like puzzles but you, oh so much, like flying not because it brings something to the table but because it is a novelty that you want to see so the wraiths would feel a little bit different from the ghouls and the revenants. Not that flying in RPGs and Action Adventures even feels great - it is just floating around with no-clip without any skill or reason required.
 

Roband

Long Dead
Mallius Odium
OG 2020
Feb 19, 2020
42
51
58
I am pretty sure the developers said in some interview that jumping and climbing won't be a thing, at least at the game lunch. Since there are various types of puzzles you can make players do this probably means that puzzles will be present (i think? were they ever confermed?) but they won't be of the platform type. The fact that players (with mounts or with their own powers) will be able to fly completely trivialize whatever puzzle with platform elements in it unless they plan to put some sort of restrictions in certain areas (Guild Wars 2 does exactly that during jumping puzzles since the game introduced mounts).
Don't get me wrong, i think flying is cool and it allows to avoid tedious long walks (not to mention that is a mechanic that can bring interesting strategies on the table even in PVP situations), but simply put it's not compatible with platform in general. It is not by nature, at least for how they have been made until now.

Puzzles aside, i am curious to know how they will manage map fast movement among classes. I mean, if you are playing a gohul or a revenant how would it work? They don't seem undeads capable of flying but time will tell, they may have something up their sleves that balance them in comparison with other classes (or maybe they will make flying mounts available for all classes around the same level other specific classes unlock flight powers).

I will try asking this in the ask the dev topic.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Elveone

DukeVaeVictis

Long Dead
Mallius Odium
Immemorial
Ageless
OG 2020
Apr 17, 2020
40
40
58
I have posted about revenants before so I don't think I have to repeat it but when it comes to ghouls, I can imagine them being able to change and adapt depending on what they eat but I'm putting it to rest. As much as I loved Legacy of Kain back in the day the narrative of the games was the strongest suits, not the gameplay, I don't want a reskin of it, it should be modern and try new things and not be stuck in a past which has been gone for nearly 20 years.

The lack of jumping is worrying to say at least, what about dashing? dodging? rolling? I don't think puzzles are good arguement for slower and less innovative gameplay as puzzles are an absolute hit or miss, I would honestly go so far and say that puzzles should be at best a non-requirement and an optional activity, no one is going to change the opinions of anyone here.
 
Last edited:

Elveone

Long Dead
Mallius Odium
Immemorial
Ageless
OG 2020
Dog Adopter
Mar 28, 2019
110
126
93
I have posted about revenants before so I don't think I have to repeat it but when it comes to ghouls, I can imagine them being able to change and adapt depending on what they eat but I'm putting it to rest. As much as I loved Legacy of Kain back in the day the narrative of the games was the strongest suits, not the gameplay, I don't want a reskin of it, it should be modern and try new things and not be stuck in a past which has been gone for nearly 20 years.

The lack of jumping is worrying to say at least, what about dashing? dodging? rolling? I don't think puzzles are good arguement for slower and less innovative gameplay as puzzles are an absolute hit or miss, I would honestly go so far and say that puzzles should be at best a non-requirement and an optional activity, no one is going to change the opinions of anyone here.
What are you talking about? Legacy of Kain featured gameplay elements that were there far before their time and are kind of the center of modern action adventures. Before BOTW reintroduced gliding as a main mechanic of the genre we've been gliding as Raziel 20 years ago. The most innovative systems in the genre are actually the restrictions that that game brought to the climbing mechanics of Assassin's Creed which kind of reinvigorated them and they became the center point of a few very successful games recently. People are tired of mindless traversal and do want to think how to get to places instead of just snapping their fingers and getting there.

As for the lack of jumping - I believe it is a misunderstanding. The game will feature jumping but vertical movement won't be a big focus. As for dodging - earlier prototypes featured this so I doubt it would be removed.
 

Roband

Long Dead
Mallius Odium
OG 2020
Feb 19, 2020
42
51
58
I have posted about revenants before so I don't think I have to repeat it but when it comes to ghouls, I can imagine them being able to change and adapt depending on what they eat but I'm putting it to rest. As much as I loved Legacy of Kain back in the day the narrative of the games was the strongest suits, not the gameplay, I don't want a reskin of it, it should be modern and try new things and not be stuck in a past which has been gone for nearly 20 years.

The lack of jumping is worrying to say at least, what about dashing? dodging? rolling? I don't think puzzles are good arguement for slower and less innovative gameplay as puzzles are an absolute hit or miss, I would honestly go so far and say that puzzles should be at best a non-requirement and an optional activity, no one is going to change the opinions of anyone here.

As Elveone said i may have misunderstood the jumping part, with all the videos and intrviews in the past months it may just be that i missed it or simply associeted jumping with vertical movement (i mean they are connected with each others but limiting one doesn't necessarily preclude the other)

Ater all there are plenty of games where vertical movement is limited or even totally absent but still allow players jumping, anyway they didn't talk much about it.

Also, all the gameplay videos are pretty old now and we may see some jumping when new gamplay will be released, dodging and dashing are already present so i personally don't see any reason to not have rolling too in the future
 

Elveone

Long Dead
Mallius Odium
Immemorial
Ageless
OG 2020
Dog Adopter
Mar 28, 2019
110
126
93
As Elveone said i may have misunderstood the jumping part, with all the videos and intrviews in the past months it may just be that i missed it or simply associeted jumping with vertical movement (i mean they are connected with each others but limiting one doesn't necessarily preclude the other)

Ater all there are plenty of games where vertical movement is limited or even totally absent but still allow players jumping, anyway they didn't talk much about it.

Also, all the gameplay videos are pretty old now and we may see some jumping when new gamplay will be released, dodging and dashing are already present so i personally don't see any reason to not have rolling too in the future
Here's the latest on the topic of vertical movement(just click play, it should start at the correct time):
 
  • Useful
Reactions: Roband

Lowlife

Long Dead
Mallius Odium
Immemorial
Ageless
OG 2020
Mar 27, 2019
26
38
58
I can definitely understand the hesitation of different types of vertical locomotion in the context of environment based puzzles. The "do this and that to reach this point of the environment" would entirely lose all satisfaction of solving the puzzle if you could just fly to said location and bypass the puzzle all together. When I created the thread I had mostly just the context of combat and free roaming in mind. I hadn't considered the puzzle problems that it would create. While I would still love to see some of these implemented, I can definitely understand the balancing issues that would come with it
 
  • Like
Reactions: Elveone and Livin

Livin

Ancient
Herald of the Dead
Immemorial
Ageless
OG 2020
Dog Adopter
Magus
Mar 20, 2019
249
299
108
I would want there to be consequences for bypassing puzzles, slower level progression from reduced xp as a result of doing less on the journey. If not that then I'd like it if the paths that bypass the puzzles come with their own challenges, such as stealth for flight by having to avoid detection from predators that hunt in the skies and can instakill you if discovered.
 

Elveone

Long Dead
Mallius Odium
Immemorial
Ageless
OG 2020
Dog Adopter
Mar 28, 2019
110
126
93
I would want there to be consequences for bypassing puzzles, slower level progression from reduced xp as a result of doing less on the journey. If not that then I'd like it if the paths that bypass the puzzles come with their own challenges, such as stealth for flight by having to avoid detection from predators that hunt in the skies and can instakill you if discovered.
I do not think punishment for not doing a puzzle or any other type of content is a good way to go but multiple paths in a level are a good idea if they can be executed properly.