this is an interesting setup - but on the other hand it confuses HOW you play say if "dance macabre" was LMB and "blood drinker" was key R... it does one thing but if you put "dance macabre" on spacebar it does something slightly or completely different... but that in turn takes away from a natural feel of - main attack on LMB - so i honestly dont know how i feel on this idea (could be interesting though!)
I don't see why the order and placement of the cards should interfere with what buttons they are assigned to. I would argue that the button assignment should be tied to the cards themselves no matter where they are placed, unless I missed something from the stream.
I think you are overthinking it with the inversions and the positioning. I don't think we heard anything in the stream that would suggest those things would matter at all or are even a thing. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

I've watched and rewatched the stream and haven't seen any mentioning of cards having multiple different abilities based on their position or orientation. The only "flip" on the cards seem to be the flipping of revealing the talent tree behind it. It is already a lot as it is, if they had different behaviors based on their associated button... it would just become needlessly complicated for the developers. I don't think that's the case.
Neither of you are wrong, nothing was said about it but the question was never asked from what I can recall. So it could go either way.
 
This is kind of in the vein of positioning of the cards but its also more of a statement/desire of what I would like to see. When it comes to the thought of potential artworks it would be really cool to see card sets. Something that goes from left to right (regardless of the binding associated (maybe that can be switched around)) in a fashion that it is some sort of panoramic view of something. In the end kind of like a gear bonus or visual bonus.
 
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I love the system they are trying to implement, the customisation potential is huge, i also like the idea of using tarot cards as a visual representation

I would like to know more about how melee combat works, for what i understood the magic system is a completely different thing but melee is included in the skill system right? (correct me if i am wrong) What i'm curious about is how the combos/attacks chain with one another, like if there are keys for each card to have let's say 3 different combos and 3 different buttons to start them (if you have 3 melee attack cards) or if there is a single combo but you can freely chain in it all the 3 skills with their respective power ups. So yeah i hope they will talk more about that in the future.

I like that you can obtain cards doing all sort of activities because this means that you are free to play the game at your own pace and way (what if i want to be a vampire obsessed with ancient history and want just to explore the game locations in my playthrough?) and still obtain skills to help you just like any other player that maybe prefer other activities.
Of course special cards should have their own condition to obtain them and that is fair (like defeating a boss for example), i just hope the drops for these cards are guaranteed and not RNG related, it would be pretty insufferable to spend an evening trying to accomplish whatever the game is asking just to realise that you are not in the xx percentage to have the card dropped.

I also like the idea of having special requirements for obtaining a certain card, i hope those requirements will be related to lore and story though. I hate the kind requests like "you have to kill xx enemies", "find xx plants" ecc. (come on this system is potentially endless already there is no need to such trivial things, they would just pull players away imho)

As for the "one in a time cards", i think it ulimately depends on how it is implemented and what exactly that means.
The problem with this like others mentioned is that is purely based on luck and how much time you play the game, not the individuals proficency of the players or their tenacity in the way of earning it. I would gladly bow to someone who proved greater skills in playing the game than me rather that realising i couldn't obtain it myself becouse i have a job and a life. I wouldn't mind much if it's cosmetic only though.

But we still do not know the details of this: maybe the cards have a limited number of use and after that is lost and another player may attempt to take it. Maybe the use is ulimited but there is a timer on it, and is lost again once it's expired. Maybe it's lost once a player dies (witch would require clearence about what death means, if true death or just loss of phisycal form). Maybe all the options that i just come up with, we don't know yet. So "one in a time" is something to be defined, i will wait for more infos.
Anyway i think it's positive to give everyone a chance to have them, at the very least one player has the possibiity to obtain it once in a while (even if you have to race against 1 million other players you still have in theory your chance to have it), i imagine the server would go crazy once it's confirmed that such a card is free again for the taking for those brave and skillful enough. In the long run i think it would benefit the game longevity more than just having one player forever keeping it, maybe someone who is not even playing anymore (and if these one time cards are related to character death i think this issue would require the developers attention).
 
Anyway i think it's positive to give everyone a chance to have them, at the very least one player has the possibiity to obtain it once in a while (even if you have to race against 1 million other players you still have in theory your chance to have it), i imagine the server would go crazy once it's confirmed that such a card is free again for the taking for those brave and skillful enough. In the long run i think it would benefit the game longevity more than just having one player forever keeping it
this seems like the best idea for a solo unique skill - can call them true death skills.

maybe someone who is not even playing anymore (and if these one time cards are related to character death i think this issue would require the developers attention).
the problem here is some people have real life issues or go on hiatus for long stretches. So before implementing them there should be a stipulation so noone gets mad that after (X period of time of not logging in - be it a couple ages or a year or what have you the power is lost)
 
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Honestly - I don't think you even have to remove the card from the original character - if a character is detected to be on hiatus just generate the card for somebody else. If eventually the player comes back and there are two of those cards instead of one - I don't see what the big deal is.
 
Honestly - I don't think you even have to remove the card from the original character - if a character is detected to be on hiatus just generate the card for somebody else. If eventually the player comes back and there are two of those cards instead of one - I don't see what the big deal is.
unique - one of a kind. if there are 2 copies of the same card then it is no longer unique.
 
We are in a game - there have been non-unique uniques for quite a while now. Even in non-game speech unique sometimes just means very rare or even unusual. In any case - it is a skill that a player has - it would be extremely strange programming if two players are no able to have the same skill, albeit a special grade one.
 
We are in a game - there have been non-unique uniques for quite a while now. Even in non-game speech unique sometimes just means very rare or even unusual. In any case - it is a skill that a player has - it would be extremely strange programming if two players are no able to have the same skill, albeit a special grade one.
yes plenty of games have unique items and its mostly due to it being of a cosmetic design and stats for the item, compared to any other type of that same item.

u·nique
/yo͞oˈnēk/
adjective
  1. being the only one of its kind; unlike anything else.


I do understand and get both views though.

the majority of people would like to have the ability to be able to acquire everything so if only 1 person was able to get said item it takes away from the game - especially casual / weekend warrior style players who can't or won't be able to put a lot of time investment in the game.

on the flip side of things Denis has stated time and time again - he wants to do something that hasn't been done before. This would be one of those ideas on the table. The intention behind it is to give people who do manage to get their hands on one, a sense of excitement and something truly unique - could be the player who starts 2 years in and 5 minutes into game because the stars were aligned right and a special door opened.

instead of - hey guys to make the best build for X character grab yourself this item (insert unique items). dump stats here. ect which you typically see in most MMOS and ARPGs (Diablo, Path of Exile, World of Warcraft, Guild wars 2 ect)
 
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Um... we will still have people who copy their builds from the internet - that is inevitable no matter what the system is.

The problem is that most of the time getting something that is unique is exactly "because the stars were aligned" - not based on skill or persistence but exclusively on luck. You can make something exciting without making it exclusive to one person. In fact if you make something very rare but not exclusive then you are effectively giving many more people the sense of excitement you would bestow only 1 person otherwise.
 
Honestly - I don't think you even have to remove the card from the original character - if a character is detected to be on hiatus just generate the card for somebody else. If eventually the player comes back and there are two of those cards instead of one - I don't see what the big deal is.
If the one of card mechanic has a specific funtion (obviously that we just dont know about yet) the big deal is that it would be undermining the entire concept.

Im not pro deleting a card from anyones account, but im defintely not for just creating copies just cause maybe.

In thinking about it though...i hope the one of cards are limited in the sense that maybe you can only hold one or two..or three depending on the intended plan, and that if you happen to find a new one, then you either leave it for someone...or must drop one of yours..either in that place...or it gets pushed back into the realm to appear however they may choose for it to happen.
 
If the one of card mechanic has a specific funtion (obviously that we just dont know about yet) the big deal is that it would be undermining the entire concept.

Im not pro deleting a card from anyones account, but im defintely not for just creating copies just cause maybe.

In thinking about it though...i hope the one of cards are limited in the sense that maybe you can only hold one or two..or three depending on the intended plan, and that if you happen to find a new one, then you either leave it for someone...or must drop one of yours..either in that place...or it gets pushed back into the realm to appear however they may choose for it to happen.
that could keep it interesting too.
 
As much as having unique cards leaves a bad taste in my mouth, someone being forced to give them up or having a reward taken from them without that being part of the gameplay leaves a much worse one. The only reason a character should lose that kind of item should be if they choose to sacrifice it for something else or if another player outplays them in a direct competition that the player chose to participate in(a duel, a race, etc). Having two copies of a unique card is better than taking one from somebody and compromises the game a lot less IMO.
 
As much as having unique cards leaves a bad taste in my mouth, someone being forced to give them up or having a reward taken from them without that being part of the gameplay leaves a much worse one. The only reason a character should lose that kind of item should be if they choose to sacrifice it for something else or if another player outplays them in a direct competition that the player chose to participate in(a duel, a race, etc). Having two copies of a unique card is better than taking one from somebody and compromises the game a lot less IMO.
this is is why we are trying to brainstorm ideas to toss to the devs on other possibilities to have a balance that could possibly work.
with 50+ cards per class with more down the line. There is going to be a LOT of variety - sure there will be copy pasta "best build" people out there. but none of those will truly be "the best."

As far as unique cards from what I can see.

YES to
unique skin.
unique animation.
characters history added to card.
tradeable (personally i'm against this but I tend to like to find what I use)
ability to lose it in some way. be it true death - limited capacity - time in game - time not played ect.

NO to
more powerful cards

With something along this setup - those with a unique get to show it off. its not breaking the game for them or anyone else and others may have a chance to gain it in the future.
 
Everyone has their own preferences of what they are okay or not okay with. I am against having unique cards altogether but if they do exist then I'm okay with more powerful cards and against the ability to lose in some way unless it is specifically tied to gameplay and I'm strongly against them being tradeable. Also unique animation makes no sense to me as the animation is tied to the gameplay. If you mean unique effects animation then I would put that into the "skin" category. If the card does have unique gameplay elements then I'm against it existing.

I think a lot of us are trying to make the best out of a bad situation with having the unique abilities just being a reskin of other abilities.
 
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YES to
unique skin.
unique animation.
characters history added to card.
tradeable (personally i'm against this but I tend to like to find what I use)
ability to lose it in some way. be it true death - limited capacity - time in game - time not played ect
Tradeable could be interesting. I love keeping rare things and am likely to not get rid of it. But to have the option to drop what i have for something id rather have...is just a personal benefit. I believe Denis said no to trading...but i would love the option to trade a card that someone wants for something id want (in regards to the one off) but i know thats a dangerous path.
 
this is an interesting setup - but on the other hand it confuses HOW you play say if "dance macabre" was LMB and "blood drinker" was key R... it does one thing but if you put "dance macabre" on spacebar it does something slightly or completely different... but that in turn takes away from a natural feel of - main attack on LMB - so i honestly dont know how i feel on this idea (could be interesting though!)
i....don't think thats gonna happen lol
 
this seems like the best idea for a solo unique skill - can call them true death skills.


the problem here is some people have real life issues or go on hiatus for long stretches. So before implementing them there should be a stipulation so noone gets mad that after (X period of time of not logging in - be it a couple ages or a year or what have you the power is lost)

I agree that the matter is delicate and it has to be treated carefully, i was imagining the worse case scenario: person x has a unique ability (obscenely powerful and saw after since is a unique card) and suddently stop permanently playing either because it has no time anymore to play or has limited time and other hobbies/commitments or just lost interest in the game. The card is now locked for everyone else forever, basically you can consider it delated content even.

I don't want anyone to lose anything that has earned just because he has to stop playing for a while but i think is fair to try to find a compromise about it.

One thing is an unique item that you might lose upon death if you are too careless, onother is having said item removed entirely from the game (and not necesserly for lack of skill on your part). We dont't know if this is the case of course, i made a few speculations about how this may work beside a character experiencing true death (by the way as i mentioned, to me anyway, it wouldn't be so bothersome if just said cards were to be cosmetic only).

Your idea about having a sort of "condition of use" upon acquring could be a possible solution. I'm curious to see what will be revealed next about this (Denis seems intentioned to return on the topic with more details in the future). By the time we have more informations i'm sure as Danis said "prospectives will change" and we can have more discussions, i think it could be even worth having a forum topic of his own.
 
It honestly makes little difference whether 1 player has access to a particular skill or 0 players do in a game that is striving for a massive playerbase. Chances are you are never meeting a player with a unique skill card anyway.
 
It honestly makes little difference whether 1 player has access to a particular skill or 0 players do in a game that is striving for a massive playerbase. Chances are you are never meeting a player with a unique skill card anyway.
what if the cards themselves were all unique in a way though then EVERYONE will have unique cards :D

but jokes aside - here is a "What if" situation...

what if say person A picked up dance macabre and it had skill tree type 42
then person B picked up dance macabre and it had skill tree type 104
then person C picked up dance macabre and it had skill tree type 82

Basically each of the different cards having an RNG base to where / what skills are allocated to them
Pretend these are all the same named card. but upon pickup they had different paths and some common skills and other uncommon / rare skills....
they all have 11 skills here and all start at the Green one.
card varients.png
Course this would lead to grinding / farming for the "perfect card type for meta gamers"
but what if each card was unique in the fact that no two trees will ever match

but it is an interesting "what if"
 
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Well, that way frustration lies. The deal with randomly generated loot is that generally most of it is complete and utter trash, a portion of it is somewhat useful but might as well not have half of the randomly rolled affixes on it and in some extremely rare occasions you get the perfect drop or create it through multiple affix rerolls. With loot it is kind of okay to have that kind of system because you do need trash to sell to vendors and you have just a few random affixes and in most modern games you can reroll those in some manner.

To have such a system for a skill tree that would contain 20 to 30 nodes is insanity for me. You would need quite a lot of skill card drops and you would need a bunch of time to inspect each and every skill tree to see it if benefits you in some way more than the one you currently have equipped. IMO it would create quite a lot of frustration to players and it would take a lot of development time to create that kind of system for little benefit. Besides, yes, it would make the skills unique but you do really want that kind of uniqueness that is based on random chance?

Still, I think I would love to see that kind of system implemented in a roguelike game where you start over again and again as it might be good for making things less repetitive and the kind of randomness that forces suboptimal play is a staple for the genre.