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Back at it again with some more tinfoil hat ideas! but one has been verified. And that is all 6 points on the Octahedron. So simple and obvious that it was completely looked over till recently.the Three Colors for Deadhaus are RED, BLUE, GREEN.

I decided to go to a color picker and find the opposite colors because everything we know about the octahedron is summed up in this.
The Great Houses
The nine great houses and their gods fraternal
Six elder gods usher in war eternal
The runes of power the allow ascension
The octahedron promotes dissension
The all powerful centre is unspoken
Understand the cosmos to be awoken


six sides to the octahedron.
six elder gods - one for each point.
war eternal - at odds with each other.

think of it as a 6 way tug of war with the knot in the middle...
2y8Cy1OtL4WOBb650qAWvw6cw8_yd4rYKaoaDtyUnTroftfHv1hLzp_OFJL93E-L7FtfQU17wJtq5rVpcPHdnoISFLqRKvr8DaZfC5sZTGG0O4Gnq5KKhMex_LS9NPhA5se5_A9HPKZCiS-MeaEJQzbiiMo5g3KtAwV3


going to a color picker on MS Paint (highly professional program) I put in 255,255,0 / 255,0,255 / 0,255,255
the exact opposites of the colors for deadhaus.
This was confirmed true on the Discord by Denis.
unknown.png

octahedron colors TRUE.png

so now that we know the true colors of the octahedron.

over the past two days i've been looking into opposites. the first one I really got into...
and yes this IS a BIG rabbit hole... the opposite of Essence.

I started looking up antonyms for essence and one that stood out was Chimera - I have only know it as a 3 headed mythological creature.
but some of the synonyms to chimera are... illusion, hallucination, delusion, fantasy, phantom, dream, idle fancy, creature of the imagination
if you would please open your Necro. to page 10, section 2, line 8... it will state the following....
“Time is but a dream, and I a dream of time. The dreamer sees more than you know, old friend. Farewell indeed.”
I mean... I could just be grasping at straws... but it could fit
not to mention....
chimera, chimaera (noun)
a grotesque product of the imagination

and if you have been reading you Necro like you should it seems like it should fit somewhere opposite of the essence side.

earlier today I started by looking up what is the opposite of Magic. and it said science... so I looked up what is the color represents science. and it turns out to be yellow.
science.png

i also looked up the opposite of physical and came out with Immaterial the color matches blue
Immaterial.png

took a little bit more digging for the Magenta but i came across this after finding the exact color.

Psychic.png


All three of these work as complete opposites of Deadhaus as well as fit their colors. so I Theorize that I have solved or at least come close to solving the puzzle that is the points on the octahedron...

as far as dreamhaus theroy is concerned i would put that on the Blue / light blue / magenta triangle
 

Jerion 'Wyverntamer' Kràl

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earlier today I started by looking up what is the opposite of Magic. and it said science... so I looked up what is the color represents science. and it turns out to be yellow.
Yes, in our world, where there is no proof of the supernatural, magic is the opposite of science. But in a world where there is? Science is the art of understanding the world. In our world there is no supernatural to understand and so, magic and science are antonyms. But in a world where there is magic to understand? If you exclude it from science, then not only are you being ignorant, you are being as closeminded as dr. Leopold Narret.

On the other things you mentioned:

I think the illusion/chimera idea is a fun one, but we will probably need more information on what Essence is and how it manifests before we can make an accurate guess.

The immaterial idea seems very likely, if the opposite points are exact opposites.
 
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Varik Keldun

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Science - the intellectual and practical activity encompassing the systematic study of the structure and behaviour of the physical and natural world through observation and experiment.

Magic - the power of apparently influencing the course of events by using mysterious or supernatural forces.


Science and Magic both share similar qualities yes, especially for example show someone from the 1700's a T.V. and it would be a magic box.

but if we go strictly by the definitions.
Science is the study of physical and natural through observation and experiment.
Magic influences through hidden and supernatural means.

could a magic user cast a lighting bolt yes, for example. saying "Por Ort Grav" while consuming Mandrake Root, Sulfurous Ash (for those that get the reference)
on the other hand could a person of science do it as well. yes by harnessing electricity and manipulating it like a telsa coil.
 

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Science - the intellectual and practical activity encompassing the systematic study of the structure and behaviour of the physical and natural world through observation and experiment.

Magic - the power of apparently influencing the course of events by using mysterious or supernatural forces.


Science and Magic both share similar qualities yes, especially for example show someone from the 1700's a T.V. and it would be a magic box.

but if we go strictly by the definitions.
Science is the study of physical and natural through observation and experiment.
Magic influences through hidden and supernatural means.

could a magic user cast a lighting bolt yes, for example. saying "Por Ort Grav" while consuming Mandrake Root, Sulfurous Ash (for those that get the reference)
on the other hand could a person of science do it as well. yes by harnessing electricity and manipulating it like a telsa coil.
I'm pretty sure Denis already mentioned that its not science lol. Also, magic in the world of malorum is a state of existence, and in a way, a layer of the world. Its an actual thing. What would a science from look like? How could u exist as science? Do you see what i'm saying? Besides Science is a broad and intangible term. You describe magic as the study of the supernatural, while science as the study of the natural world, but is there really such a distinction in the world of malorum? Aside from all that, and that is a personal opinion, but it sounds to me extremely silly to say that science is the opposite of magic lmao i'm sorry
 

Varik Keldun

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I'm pretty sure Denis already mentioned that its not science lol. Also, magic in the world of malorum is a state of existence, and in a way, a layer of the world. Its an actual thing. What would a science from look like? How could u exist as science? Do you see what i'm saying? Besides Science is a broad and intangible term. You describe magic as the study of the supernatural, while science as the study of the natural world, but is there really such a distinction in the world of malorum? Aside from all that, and that is a personal opinion, but it sounds to me extremely silly to say that science is the opposite of magic lmao i'm sorry
I do understand what you are saying, but if not science then what? The only two things I can think of are faith and nature. Both have good arguments for them. The issue I ran into with them is when trying to find a definitive opposite was that only science appeared.

Faith seems like a great choice, the color for it is yellow. but even Deadhaus has its priest types they were even zealous enough to do a purge on the necro.

Nature seems like the next best in the fact that things grow naturally and magic manipulates. But the color does not specify fit at least in terms I've been trying to fit. Nature has 4 colors associated with it which originally made me think the 9th house. But the colors are red, blue, green, yellow.
 
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Funny thing about magenta is that it technically doesn't exist, doesn't have a wavelength on the light spectrum and our brains just fill it in.

Also not sure if anyone else is a Nick Cage fan but magenta was chosen to be the color for the adaptation of Lovecraft's Color Out Of Space.

1613807400_73_MV5BMDI0YjU0NTYtMGI4Mi00ZThiLWEzMTctNTdiMzRkYzM5YmYwXkEyXkFqcGdeQXVyODc0OTEyNDU@...jpg

Edited for improper wording
 
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Elveone

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I generally do not think trying to guess the vertices of the octahedron based on color will result in anything as you can find multiple sources to claim that different colors have different, often contradictory meanings. Following any internet source it is perfectly possible to get any color to mean anything you want them to.

I don't think "Immaterial" is a good vertex to have as it doesn't signify something that is but only something that isn't. Even looking at the current states - Magikal and Essential are immaterial states of existence already.

Science in a domain of knowledge and truth and we already have have a vertex representing those - the Magikal one. Not that it cannot be a separate thing but still. While we all know that any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic there exists another idiom - any sufficiently analyzed magic is indistinguishable from science. I think that Science and technology can appear as a separate vertex if Denis and the team want to have a very technological race on the roster. Still even then that technology can be anything from a steam-punky low-tier 19th and early 20th century tech to futuristic robots, AIs and grey goo tech. Which is kind of good because if Science is one of the vertices then we need to have at least 4 different factions that have to be kind of uniquely.

As for psychic abilities - I like the idea but the question is what do those represent in terms of underlying principle?

So far we have the following:
- the Material realm representing basically physical existence, it is the power to shape the physical world by pure physical force
- the Magikal realm representing knowledge and truth, it is the power the shape the world by knowing what it is and how it works and changing it
- the Essential realm representing identity and the soul, it is the power to know yourself, to change yourself or to impose who you are on the world making it part yourself and controlling it that way

"If not science then what?"
I think I've previously suggested Logic, Beauty and Community to be the other 3 vertices and there are a few others I would like to analyze quickly.

If we have the physical existence as top of one of the pyramids then we must have something else that can never coexist with the physical realm as the top of the other. Void or Nothingness is a thing that comes to mind immediately. It offers a pretty cool power set - to erase anything you don't like from existence. The problem with Void is how does this realm even exist if its primary characteristic is non-existence?

I like the abstraction of Logic as something that can never purely exist in the physical realm and something that is purely mental as the opposite of the Material realm. The question though is what kind of power does that give you? The expression of logic might be technology as technology is an expression of an idea in the physical world but then Logic doesn't really serve well as an antithesis to the Material realm and we are really delving into the world of Science again as one of the other two vertices. On the other hand if Logic is the vertex then Science can be its expression in only one of the factions and there might be other expressions of it on the other houses and those expressions can all depend on what other vertices are touched. Magical + Logic + Physical can result in Science while Logic + Magical + Mind(another proposed antithesis to the Material I will talk about later) will result in imposing unbreakable Laws. Logic + Essence might result in something that is a bit more like an AI than what we see in the deadhaus essential classes as well. There are possibilities but Logic is kind of weird.

Thought or Mind is similar to the Logic as an antithesis to Material but not as something that has to be logical, just abstract and non-corporeal. The powers can be direct reality manipulation on a whim and a realm of pure thought is easy to imagine. Where I personally find a problem with that is that the concept of the pure Mind is already kind of where either the Essential or the Magikal realm lie - if it is more focused on the idea of self then it is in the domain of the Essential and if it is more focused on the idea of knowledge then it is in the Magikal realm. Still I can kind of see this concept working if the primary purpose of those allighned with Mind is the destruction of the physical realm and transitioning of all to the realm of pure thought which can kind of work like Void but solves the problem on the Void's realm.

I like the idea of being able to change things on a whim though which is why I am a fan of Beauty as one of the vertices. Beauty can give you the power to change the world to what you see as beautiful and as we are talking really dark fantasy here that can really be anything. If we want to we can get Beauty to be kind of antithetical to the Material realm as well as something that exists purely outside of it as pure thought but I do not really know if it fits well as it is obvious that beauty can exist in the physical realm as well. Still it is easy to see how Beauty can be the antithesis of the Magikal - while the Magikal is focused on learning about the world and its rules and manipulating them to achieve power Beauty would be focused on ignoring the rules in order to achieve some personal goal. I would have included Order and Chaos in the discussion as well but Order can be found in the Magikal realm and Chaos can be found in the realm of Beauty if we define it that way. Or of course they can be separate realms with similar characteristics.

Connection - at first I was going with Community but Connection seems to be a lot more versatile and explain a lot more. Basically this is a power source that allows you to better connect to others and non-living. Such a vertex can facilitate several types of society and classes. One of them is a hive-mind type of society where everyone is connected psychically. Another is a very religious community where people are not connected mind to mind but to each other and to their diety. Because of the nature of connection you can explain miracles that way. Connection can also explain psychic phenomena such as telekinesis as being connected to the non-living world around you. Hive minds can explain amplification to physic phenomena or even can employ the idea of amplified will, thought or faith to make something unnatural happen. Of course Connection would be the vertex opposite of Essence.

I think I might be able to come up with something different as well but at this point I am out of ideas or kind of stuck on those and I am just editing them and adding things to them rather than coming up with new ones. My sentences are also turning longer and more rambly so I think it is better to stop for now. Oh, and for the colors:

Magenta can symbolize harmony, change or character so it is really great for Connection or Beauty.
Cyan is associated with relaxation, inspiration, rationality and cleanliness so it can be used for Logic, Mind or Void(as in mediation I guess?)
If we think of Cyan as Turquoise then we can use it to mean compassion or communication as well which is perfect for Connection, but it is also kind of associated with narcissism so we can use it for Beauty as well.
Yellow can mean happiness, warmth, creativity, intellect or even interconnectivity so it can be used for Beauty, Logic, Science or Connection.
 
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Roband

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Good job finding the colors but i don't think they are too reiable as a source to guess the points on the octagram. As Elveone said there are a lot of interpretations often contradicting each other. For exemple magic and spirituality are more commonly associated with purple, while red is linked with vitality but so are other colors like orange and green.

Also for what i understand about the lore, these points are fundamental aspects of the existence as a whole so science would not make much sense to me (we know that for each point corresponds a different realm with his own elder god controlling it). Science is an abstract construct that humans created to study and understand the physical world around them, while magick we already know being an everexisting primordial force that is part of the creation.

Faith is a bit more convincing: if you think about magik as the rappresentation of the most inner form of knowledge it could make sense since it can stray away from the "truth" of faith, and tapping into knowledge also means tapping into the forbidden or in what the faith would define as false. One problem i have with faith is that it doesn't feel right as a realm or as an aspect of reality.

I think it was also mentioned that in the world of Deadhaus sonata to gain power is to come closer to the truth, and those who use magik speak words of said truth and tap in it to various degrees. So if magick represents truth than the opposite would be secrets, lies, darkness and so on but those have little to do with yellow i'm afraid.
 

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Actually yellow is associated with deception as well so that fits quite well with both the color and the opposites theory.

P.S. There was a question from a recent gaming podcast I was reminded of - Is poison green or purple?
 
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Varik Keldun

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Good job finding the colors but i don't think they are too reiable as a source to guess the points on the octagram. As Elveone said there are a lot of interpretations often contradicting each other. For exemple magic and spirituality are more commonly associated with purple, while red is linked with vitality but so are other colors like orange and green.
my findings were based off of research into antonyms, and colors. not just the colors alone, I have already given alternatives as to what other possibilities I think could be there as well.

and though purple may define magic overall, blue represents truth

Color Magick And Associated Properties​

Each color has a set of properties associated to it. So when you begin calculating the qualities you want to invoke, employee the color that best suits your needs.

  • White – Spirituality, protection, and cleansing.
  • Yellow – Communication, intellect, learning, concentration, action, and wisdom.
  • Orange – Empathy, confidence, legal matter, and pride.
  • Red – Ambition, vigor, endurance, passion, lust, and ambition.
  • Pink – Friendship, gentleness, reconciliation, and love.
  • Purple – Psychic matters, success, commitment, and power.
  • Blue – Healing, guidance, spirituality, truth, and happiness.
  • Green – Fertility, employment, good luck, prosperity, and beauty.
  • Brown – Nature, grounding, the animal kingdom, security, and lost things.
  • Grey – Divination, psychic awareness, legal matters, and secrets.
  • Black – Rebirth, binding, stability, and divination.
  • Silver – The Goddess, the Moon, visions, and intuition.
  • Gold – The God, the Sun, life forces, and longevity.
if we take this into account as magic speaking the truth then magic representing blue makes sense.

1637196669797.png
 
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Elveone

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The color theory kind of falls apart when you try to connect Green to Soul though :) Well, unless we are counting Ghostbusters and other popular culture where the ghosts are green.
 

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The color theory kind of falls apart when you try to connect Green to Soul though :) Well, unless we are counting Ghostbusters and other popular culture where the ghosts are green.
well, I could counter this by stating that green and Magenta could possibly have switched roles /places.

But Varik HOW would that have happend!!

well there's a lore book and in it the first thing we read is the 7 suns in twilight in which....
There is a whole section about rules being re-written
sure, its a stretch but! the Enigmatic Leper does consist of at least 2 negative aspects of green (rot and decay)
negative green.png
and
Magenta does represent spirituality... which is highly like that of the Wights
again its a stretch but it does fit the book and the theme.

BUT
i'm honestly tired of bickering over everything. I had stated originally that this was all a tinfoil hat theory, that does have at least some grounds (color, antonym, and fits decently within the lore) to at least be viable.

if you're going to state my thoughts / ideas are wrong, like Elveone did cool! I don't personally agree with the theories presented, but at least Elveone went out of the way to put something together that could possibly be viable. The post was ment to get peoples brain juices flowing, thinking and looking into other avenues to uncover.

Finally
To counter the thought of Faith being the yellow side of things I would like to offer two things.
First : Faith is based off of things you cannot confirm, just belief. in a world where we know there are gods / elder gods and a whole slew of other things that kind of just goes out the window.

Second : based upon the Necro. itself. Deadhaus, has at least one high priestess of Anu Maht so there is already a religious system in place for a house that does not consist of faith in its archtype.
 

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I thought we were discussing out-there theories and having a fun time while trying to figure what the lore could be and not objectively trying to find new sources of power and attempting to exile someone from the university of Malorum because of insufficient evidence presented during a cross-examination of a doctoral dissertation :) No one is trying to prove anyone wrong, just exploring fun ideas.

Anyway I think I figured out how it might actually make sense for the Essential realm to be green and fit with the color theory. It can be said that because green represents nature it can also be used to represent one owns nature and knowing it.
 
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Roband

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my findings were based off of research into antonyms, and colors. not just the colors alone, I have already given alternatives as to what other possibilities I think could be there as well.

and though purple may define magic overall, blue represents truth

Color Magick And Associated Properties​

Each color has a set of properties associated to it. So when you begin calculating the qualities you want to invoke, employee the color that best suits your needs.

  • White – Spirituality, protection, and cleansing.
  • Yellow – Communication, intellect, learning, concentration, action, and wisdom.
  • Orange – Empathy, confidence, legal matter, and pride.
  • Red – Ambition, vigor, endurance, passion, lust, and ambition.
  • Pink – Friendship, gentleness, reconciliation, and love.
  • Purple – Psychic matters, success, commitment, and power.
  • Blue – Healing, guidance, spirituality, truth, and happiness.
  • Green – Fertility, employment, good luck, prosperity, and beauty.
  • Brown – Nature, grounding, the animal kingdom, security, and lost things.
  • Grey – Divination, psychic awareness, legal matters, and secrets.
  • Black – Rebirth, binding, stability, and divination.
  • Silver – The Goddess, the Moon, visions, and intuition.
  • Gold – The God, the Sun, life forces, and longevity.
if we take this into account as magic speaking the truth then magic representing blue makes sense.

View attachment 978

Maybe i couldn't explain myself properly.

What i meant to say is that given their many meanings colors can be deceptive (or at least counterintuitive like for essence for exemple), at least without some context. With magic for exemple we know that blue can make sense because we have a link that makes truth and magik being connected in the lore of the game. In this case the realm is Magick, not truth, but it matches the color and makes sense if you take the lore about magick into account. So the opposing side being yellow doen't necessary mean that is the opposite of magic per se, it could as well be the color of a concept that oppose what magick rappresents in this game. This is why i disagreed about science despite technically being the opposite of magic and even having the right color.

As for your second post, like Elveone i too was thinking about just having fun trying to figure out the possibilities and i assure you that there was no intent of bickering from my part.

Actually yellow is associated with deception as well so that fits quite well with both the color and the opposites theory.

P.S. There was a question from a recent gaming podcast I was reminded of - Is poison green or purple?

Interesting, i had no idea (so it could make sense after all). As for the question: why not both? 😁
 
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