2nd hand Irishman here.
looking away from the header of this.
Games in both near and distance past have had classes locked behind race/gender and even factions before.
and I will give an example of each.
Elin (TERRA Online) Reaper class
Kerillian elf (Warhammer: Vermintide 1 & 2) Ranger
Paladins and Shamans (World of Warcraft 2004 & Now Classic)
This concept is nothing new.
Heck in looking back at the last time Psyonix made a LoK spin off (nosgoth), there were classes locked behind gender.
my tldr this isnt a build your own murder hobo workshop.
Each Class represents a type of Character with their own back story and motives and combat styles.
Lets wait for the game to come out and see from there first, before we bust out the silver and torches and pitchforks.
I said as much that people will accept it, because it has been done before. It also never felt good and was ALWAYS an unnecessary pain point in ever instance it turned up in.
I've seen nothing from others that changes my stance on it, and I don't really care that others might disagree, because their argument has yet to invalidate mine in any way.
The only argument that does is "because the devs said so" and that's more of a matter of fact than a satisfying resolution.
Additionally, since the game is funded by cosmetics, yeah,
it kinda is about playing dress up for your murder hobo, so that part of your argument is also invalid.
I think we all might be closer to the same side than it appears, because I wouldn't mind a gender-neutral banshee. That's what most of the classes are going to be, I predict, since gender does not matter to the dead. Gender is how life procreates, which the dead don't do. We might be thinking too much in terms of pop culture or the current cultural tensions that I know a lot of my friends have to deal with every single day. I think what I personally am arguing against is a super buff traditionally manly banshee, as that would be absolutely wreck the immersion for me. But your banshee doesn't have to look like the one they showed today. I want to see some frail-ass ghastly banshees, and I don't care bout the boobs. Great if they're there, great if they're not. But the slider has to stop somewhere to keep it within the lore. Isn't it kind of taking away from all identifying women, who get a class where men are excluded? Seeing a role that only a woman/ feminine identifying can absolutely destroy with, it just means something to me if that makes sense. I do understand that it's impossible to make everyone happy but we can make compromises along the way.
Having said all this, what do you guys think would be a good way to represent nonbinary and trans? So others can have that same feeling I described above about watching women wreck shit. Suggestions would be awesome, maybe another class can be that representation that definitely does need to be in more games. I do however think most of the races are already going to be pretty gender-fluid by default, because as I said before it doesn't matter to the dead. I do understand wanting to feel like your character represents you, but this game might not be one to even have a lot of gender variations, aside from banshee, since we are playing horrific monsters.
Gender isn't about reproduction, it's a social construct as an expression of femme vs masculine, and those things are largely arbitrary and change over time. Consider Theodore Roosevelt, a really strong man's man of his time, was pictured in a dress as a young child, because that's how it was at the time.
The concepts of "pink for girls and blue for boys" is also relatively new to the species. All in all the concept of gender is stupid, speaking as het, cis, white, male. It literally solves nothing, is subject to mass differences based on culture and time period and geographic location, and literally solves no social ill, while managing to be a point of oppression for marginalized people (women, gender non comforming, etc.). Gender is first up against the wall when I am king.
Biological sex on the other hand, is entirely separate, and medically speaking, does matter... unless of course, you're undead and don't procreate... which is exactly the case, and that means literally nothing here because undead don't procreate traditionally, instead they are made, which makes them closer to stuff like worms that make more worms from themselves.
Point being, Nothing I am referring to is about gender. I'm talking about cosmetics. There is nothing stopping a trans person from saying their banshee has a wang, or that their manly revenant has a vagina. All of that is perfectly viable according to Dennis in an other thread. What isn't possible is to have the combat mechanics of the banshee and appear masculine.
Strictly speaking, people shouldn't be boxed in on cosmetics for game mechanics, that's always bad form, especially when the game is funded by cosmetics... if nothing else it's a bad business strategy. I understand the "why" of the decision, I just think it's a bad decision from every angle, including their lore in game.
Consider that the banshee was never alive, that means it's an other worldly creature from beyond the veil as stated... and yet... when these creatures take humanoid form... for some reason they must have boobs, because reasons... No thanks, not cool by me.
Challenge to anyone: Why MUST otherworldly creatures take boob having form when appearing humanoid?
Take all the time you need. The concept of tradition doesn't apply, because these banshees already differ in lore from the traditional.
If there's a coherent and passable explanation for why boobs must happen for magical creatures from beyond the veil, I'll be happy to hear it.
