MorsPraedator

Ripe
OG 2020
Sep 20, 2020
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I wouldn’t mind raids as a concept but the idea of it would be against the empire fighting Deadhaus, such as key strongholds, Certain Castles, possibly even main story key locations such as the capital’ and if such events and actions happen and the raid is completed you’ll only not get more gear and items to help you level up long side benefits your builds. It will also be affect the world as a whole. Example: Deadhaus manages to conquer a key Castle within the empire which is known to be impossible to conquer and destroy due to powerful individuals supporting the war against the undead as well as keeping the castle very well defended. Once the empire hears of the fall of the castle it affects the warriors and knights etc of all ranks as in their morale is taken a blow meaning they are debuffed and are more vulnerable as well as dropping more items for you to scavenge however they will fight harder and aggressive swearing to avenge those who have fallen in the castle. While All deadhaus classes gain Exp a bit more as well as having their morale boosted high and crave for more death and the effects would last maybe 2 weeks after the raid is completed. And as a little treat maybe all undead get something related to the event such as a weapon or a emblem. What do you guys think of a possible Raid and possible affects of it upon the world ?
just an idea
 
I think raids are overrated type of content that a vocal minority asks about. Just keep content to normal group size with multiple difficulty options. I don't think 40 people completing 40 people content should affect the world. I think a single person completing 5-man content should.
 
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While All deadhaus classes gain Exp a bit more as well as having their morale boosted high and crave for more death and the effects would last maybe 2 weeks after the raid is completed. And as a little treat maybe all undead get something related to the event such as a weapon or a emblem. What do you guys think of a possible Raid and possible affects of it upon the world ?
just an idea
1) This sounds like a re-hash of Vanilla WoW raids - when people took out raid bosses people within the city got "warcheifs blessing or what-not"
Personally though, the biggest problem with raids in general is organizing them (its one of the main factors they dropped the 40 man raid to 20 max after they moved past vanilla. This would still leave raids to the elite few who can get the right people for the right time to do said raid.

2) Deadhaus is a 1-6 player game and all content SHOULD be able to be completed single player for those who wish to play that route.
 
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Here's a thought... what if "raids" can be made by having a group effort of continuous separate instances?

Instead of getting any specific amount of people to fight together at a specific time, you have a number of missions that need to be executed, with various challenges of their own, that players from all over the world can accept and take individually on their time within a certain period of the raid. This way, players can still make a grand group effort to overcome a special story challenge, yet that doesn't compromise the current plan of having smaller groups of up to 6 players AND it allows for those who want to play solo to still be able to participate.

The only thing missing is the high amount of players on screen at once, which is its own kind of special experience in and out of itself, but this seems like a good middle ground.

The success of a raid depends on players being able to achieve success in their continuous and increasingly difficult challenges. With the persistence they want to achieve, perhaps there are decisions to be made in those missions that will also be chosen according to what most players do. I'm not a major fan of getting a story outcome chosen for me, if I disagree with the choice, but that sounds more or less what they have mentioned wanting to do in the past.
 
Here's a thought... what if "raids" can be made by having a group effort of continuous separate instances?

Instead of getting any specific amount of people to fight together at a specific time, you have a number of missions that need to be executed, with various challenges of their own, that players from all over the world can accept and take individually on their time within a certain period of the raid. This way, players can still make a grand group effort to overcome a special story challenge, yet that doesn't compromise the current plan of having smaller groups of up to 6 players AND it allows for those who want to play solo to still be able to participate.

The only thing missing is the high amount of players on screen at once, which is its own kind of special experience in and out of itself, but this seems like a good middle ground.

The success of a raid depends on players being able to achieve success in their continuous and increasingly difficult challenges. With the persistence they want to achieve, perhaps there are decisions to be made in those missions that will also be chosen according to what most players do. I'm not a major fan of getting a story outcome chosen for me, if I disagree with the choice, but that sounds more or less what they have mentioned wanting to do in the past.
I was thinking something similar along this line and I could not get it into words that sounded right.
 
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OK but... why? I mean sure, you get some kind of larger group content but it is not a large group content but a bunch of smaller group content and you create way too many problems. Instead of having 1 area you have to design several and you cannot autogenerate them cause you kind of have to synchronize them. If it is an event thing then each player is only experiencing one of the areas and a lot of the content kind of feels wasted. If it is not an event then you kind of have to create those multiple dungeons with set number of groups in multiple places. As a matter of convenience - you still have to gather a large number of players to play that content at the same time and all of them are relying mostly of nobody messing up which is where the frustration of large group content mostly comes from but because you are in separate instances you cannot even carry the wait of a mistake as easily. You also now have the problem of one group progressing faster than another and having to wait for the rest. And that gets worse if one of the groups repeatedly wipes and has to restart content. And what happens if one of the groups decide to quit?
 
OK but... why? I mean sure, you get some kind of larger group content but it is not a large group content but a bunch of smaller group content and you create way too many problems. Instead of having 1 area you have to design several and you cannot autogenerate them cause you kind of have to synchronize them. If it is an event thing then each player is only experiencing one of the areas and a lot of the content kind of feels wasted. If it is not an event then you kind of have to create those multiple dungeons with set number of groups in multiple places. As a matter of convenience - you still have to gather a large number of players to play that content at the same time and all of them are relying mostly of nobody messing up which is where the frustration of large group content mostly comes from but because you are in separate instances you cannot even carry the wait of a mistake as easily. You also now have the problem of one group progressing faster than another and having to wait for the rest. And that gets worse if one of the groups repeatedly wipes and has to restart content. And what happens if one of the groups decide to quit?
If it wasn't TOO highly organized but rather like a poll than a typical WoW raid... you're not waiting for anyone and anyone can participate or not. But if the majority of players choose to play a certain way or win/lose against a major enemy or army, that can affect the story and the next age. I think raids would be kind of annoying too, Elveone, but maybe this way could make the world feel more dynamic and make Deadhaus feel like one large united army? I'm kind of neutral on the whole thing and just watching but maybe that's a direction things could go
 
@Elveone Imagine that there is an event lasting for a week. This is the raid. It is an ongoing war effort of the undead against a powerful opponent of any kind. 17 different mission types are designed for players to go through, all of which have a predefined starting and end point, but have their scenarios procedurally generated, as we expect many of the common campaign missions to be, and so that if you replay any of them the mission is going to feel new. Players can choose which war effort (mission) they are going to participate on, or none at all. Players can then play through each of these missions, even all of them if they so desire, by themselves or with up to 6 players. The combined effort of every player, going through every mission, will add to a collective calculation of the outcome of the raid.

It allows for people to play it on their own way, it is a timed event, which are things they might want to do either way to engage the players, and it doesn't actually restrict content for anyone, while also providing a taste of a community effort. Do you see what I mean?
 
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@shinybri honestly - I'm against raids overall but the way I interpreted the proposition kind of solves one problem to create a lot more.

@Golden Xan I think that's just an event, not a raid. I'm not against that kind of cooperative event although I hate everything that is time-limited in general cause it usually exploits FOMO to pass subpar content.
 
I don't know what FOMO is, but I actually have never been a fan of timed events either. However, the Ages themselves are timed events. If players can shape the universe by playing, if they don't play the game for months or years, when they come back the game is bound to be different, having been influenced in some way or another by those who have played, and with the Ages having come and gone.

You are right that the concept I spoke of is not exactly a raid in the traditional MMO sense. I do think that, with a heavy tie with the story and meaningful outcomes, it can be done effectively as a form of organized faction effort and be just as fun though.
 
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Sorry, thought the abbreviation was universally understood. FOMO stands for Fear Of Missing Out. It basically means that you are engaged in a game not because you necessarily like the content but because it or rather the rewards will be gone afterwards. The ages... they are on a larger time scale. I am mostly pissed at one-week-long events that are poorly thought out but offer some nice cosmetic or progression item that will help you somewhat but the content itself is crap.

As for those kinds of events - I think they will already be in-game. IIRC part of the political system that we have seen advertised is about completing quests for your faction in order to have larger influence in addition to the player and stream votes.
 
I guess my worry is that raids will be where all of the story's points will end. No grand mano a mano confrontations just conglomerate mass zerging the boss. That wouldn't be satisfying for me, or feel much like Legacy of Kain at all.
 
That's a valid concern, and something that they should be taking into consideration. Being a narrative-driven game, I don't think they will have anything that is mindless or purposeless in the universe.
 
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I was having a shower thought about this topic. I know SWTOR was considered a bad MMO when it first came out, but I think it handled this topic well. ESO kind of handles it similarly. You see, your class story's nemesis was never in a dungeon, nor a raid. Dungeons and raids had their own stories -- from alien races trying to take over a weapons manufactory, to Mandalorians invading your ship. But the Sith Warrior never had to worry about needing anyone's help to fight his nemesis. That was something he had to do alone.

So I guess tl;dr: If we have raids and dungeons, I would give them very separate stories from your class story.
 
I think there's a space for this but not in the classic WoW raid boss sense, that's something that should be more of a world event you mark on the calendar and it happens and affects the timeline.

The way to manage this effectively I think, which also avoids raiding schedule problems (which excludes casuals) is to do the open world PVE coop objectives.

These are pretty common in say, Destiny 2. In particular the moon Hellmouth location comes to mind as a good example.

You have an area that's say flooded with X enemy type, going to attempt this on your own is generally folly... perhaps possible if you're min/maxed in a specific way, but certainly not optimal. The area then has a sequence of increasingly difficult objectives. Players can then participate in the area or not, though having a dedicated quest line that brings them there is a must.

This allows that you can then participate in mass scale battles with grand objectives and summoned boss creatures... but without needing to make it a timeline intensive thing that makes no sense to be able to play later unless you do the WoW time jumping stuff, which is just super convoluted and kinda stupid and only makes sense because it's' a video game. If anything the only competent use of time travel in a game I can recall was the LoK series, and that wouldn't be doable in a shared world, it only worked as a single player experience because there were still prewritten scripted events the devs had control over how they would unfold. Similar to Hellmouth, this could be something like a demon invasion or something, but probably doesn't make a lot of sense to do on a mass scale with humanoid beings unless they have a supernatural component of some kind.

In an open world where you at least have the illusion that everyone has agency and affects the outcome, this isn't really scriptable because of the amount of variables.
 
As a person who played World Of Warcraft Vanilla, The Burning Crusade and World Of Warcraft Classic I highly welcome the idea of raids, I enjoy them a lot.

However, with that said, I would hate to see them just being implemented and not tie in to the story in a major way.
Though, I expect with this specific developer team that fear is unfounded.